Alright I have a 7mm Rem Mag that was built for another gentleman and he traded it in and now I own it. The barrel is seated in the stock and does not seem to be a Floating barrel. At the time I bought this rifle I honestly didnt even look at that. Now I Love the rifle and have taken elk,deer,bear etc...with factory ammo. Well I drew a great elk tag this year and wanted to have my friend re-load some Hornady Interbond bullets for me because I heard they are a great bullet. Here is what he loaded for those who understand this stuff (I am new at reloading) 154gr hornady Ib boattail with 69 grams of 4350 powder Magnum primer. Through the conagraph it shot 3156 .

First problem I am having is that after the shot I cant get the bolt all the way open to extract the round. I have to bang it with my hand (the bolt doesnt do the same with factory ammo) and I have cleaned it twice

Second problem is that I cannot get any consistancy out of my rounds at a 100 yards. They are all over the paper.

Question. Does the seated barrell have something to do with this? or would a floating barrell be better? or maybe the round is too hot for the seated barrell?

Of course the obvious answer is to go back to factory load but since I have bought all this stuff I would love to find a way to make it work. Now my friend is going to load up some with less powder and we will see what happens, but I thought I would ask the experts if they have any suggetions on what I could do or try. Thank you for your time and help

Both of my rifles I have are seated and they shoot great but I am willing to bet Wes (wmramse) will give you a detailed explanation on this topic.

STOP shooting that ammo, its loaded too hot for your rifle...When reloading your friend should take the rifle and check the headspacing...It sound like he hasn't done this...Go back to factory loadings...Its really a bad idea to let someone else reload for your rifle...

There is nothing magical about free floating a barrel...If the stock is synthetic, there is really no reason to do so, we did this with walnut stocks to keep the effect of a wooden stock warping or swelling from changing groups...

Free floating usually does not reduce your group sixe, it just makes a gun's zero consistant (if it is a wood stock gun)....

Thank you both for your help..

nchawkeye,
I dont mean to sound stupid but when you say head spacing does that reference the length of the entire round? because when I load the round down into the magazine it barelly clears without touching. But I was told that is what you want? But thank you for the help, I will not shoot another round though the rifle. Could I have caused any damage that I dont know about? Should I even try the new loads with less powder?

I realized that I didn't explain to you what is happening....

As you know, the shell of a cartridge is made of a brass alloy, which is fairly soft...
When you shoot a rifle this brass expands to fit the chamber of a gun, this is why
many hand loaders see a bit more accuracy from once fired brass, it simply fits
their chamber better....

You stated that it is hard to open your bolt after firing this ammo...That's because
it is loaded too hot for your rifle and the brass is expanding too much, this is one
of the signs of too much pressure in your gun's chamber when fired...

Do yourself a favor...Go back to factory ammo, most hand loaders have a hard time
duplication the accuracy and consistency of good factory ammo...Jack O'Conner killed about 18 elk with a .270, and he usually used a 130 gr bullet...

Do some research and pick a good 150 or 160 grain 7mm loading and you will have no
problem...I just looked in an old Federal catalog that I keep in my office...If they still
have a 160gr Nosler Partition in their Federal Premium line that's where I'd start...

Yep, how far off the lands of the barrel is the bullet itself, too close or too far can affect both accuracy and pressure...

I don't know how to say this "delicately"...If your buddy didn't take your rifle and get a measurement for this and set up the reloads to this length, I would not shoot any more reloads that he reloaded...Frankly, he should know better...

We have a huge selection of factory loaded bullets compared to what we had in the 70's...Like I said, its hard to beat some of the factory loadings..

Well it sounds like we are definitly too hot on the rounds. In reference to my friend , he did meassure the round against one of the accubond rounds I had last year. But he did make them a little longer so I thought I would ask to see if that was ok? I know he was just trying to help me. I think its probably just more me "thinking " reloaded was more accurate and better. But from what your saying is that the new factory stuff is very good. The only new stuff I didnt like was the Ballistic silver tips by Winchester. They seem to come apart alot.

Well I guess we will go back to the factory and maybe my friend will want some new Hornady Bullets

I don't know anything about reloading,but I do know about free floating.The purpose is to make sure that after the first shot that any following shots do not make the barrel heat up and push against the stock,causing the shots to go all over.

I would agree with the previous advice that I wouldn't shoot that load if it is the only load acting like that.Good luck!

Thanks Randolph,

So do the floating barrells stay cooler when sighting in a rifle? Because my barrell was really getting hot, but I'm guessing that has something to do with the hot load also.

There are a few things that could be happening here, but the others may be right about it being too hot.

I don't have any manuals with me, but Hodgdon's site shows a max of less than 61 grains, and another source I use shows a max of about 64 grains of 4350 powder. 69 grains of this powder is certainly too much. I doubt it has damaged your rifle yet, but I'd strongly reconsider using this man's hand loads again in the future. In fact, I strongly discourage using anyone else's hand loads in your rifle, unless they took the rifle from you to work the load up specifically for that gun. The primer is also another way to tell when the load is too hot. Compare the spent primer from one of the handloads to one of your spend factory cases. If the load is too hot, the primer will be flattened out. It may even be protruding a bit from the case. I've actually even blown primers out of the case before - don't do this, at least not more than once. Whether or not it damages the rifle, it will certainly enhance your respect for hand loaded rounds

Assuming the round is not too hot for your gun, or you misstated the amount of powder he used, he may not be sizing the brass correctly. Once-fired brass from the same gun can usually be just neck sized and work fine. Benchrest shooters do this because the case is already expanded to the size and shape of that gun's chamber, and doesn't have as much room to 'move around' in the chamber upon ignition. It also increases the useful life of your brass, as you're not working it as much as well you full-length size it. The problem with neck sizing is that after a couple of shots the brass expands enough that it gets too long for the chamber, causing a stiff bolt. I've had the same thing happen when full-length sizing brass when I didn't push the shoulder back far enough. Unless the shoulder has been pushed back far enough, chambering it will be hard, and ejecting it will be harder. Regardless, I still think that round is too hot.

As hawkeye said, floating the barrel doesn't enhance accuracy - only consistancy. The heat from a barrel warms wood stocks, causing the moisture in them to expand, warp and torque the wood. If the barrel isn't touching the stock it has almost no effect on accuracy or consistancy. If the stock is touching the wood, it will put pressure on the barrel and move it, causing flyers, inconsistant groups and point of impact that changes with the weather. With synthetic stocks, floating isn't as necessary, however you will get some benefit. Barrels will expand with heat, so if the barrel is touching the stock it will push against the stock as it heats up, again moving your POI - just not as much as with a wood stock. The contact of the stock against the barrel also changes your barrel harmonics, so depending on your specific load the gun may shoot best with full barrel/stock contact or it may shoot best free floated. It's just one of the many variables that handloaders have to consider when working up a load, and just one more reason that someone else's pet load may not shoot well at all in your gun.

It's hard to say. Floated barrels have more surface area exposed to air, which help cool the barrel, but I don't know that it makes that much difference. Barrels heat up faster when it's hot outside. If the temp is 75, I wait 2 minutes between shots. If it's 80, I wait 5 minutes between shots. If it's higher than 80 I don't even bother - I don't hunt when its that hot, and I feel that I only benefit from practice when I'm practicing what I'll be doing in the field.

Thank you for your info. I have looked at the primer and it is not completely flat but close. He said it was 68 or 69 grams of powder. He did write it down but didnt have the book in front of him. So it sounds like I need to try around 60 or 61 grams. That is a big difference, but I would rather be safe and get better groups. So do you think this combo with the correct amount of powder would still be the way to go? or like the other guys suggested I should go back to factory load? I know there are many factors to this question but just wanted your opinion? Is the Hornady IB 154's a good bullet? Sorry for all the questions but I just want to get as much info as possible so I can have confidence in my combo. Plus reload my own maybe. Unless my rifle likes the factory stuff.

When I was shooting the Hornadys 154gr they were hitting about 2 inches high @ 100yards but were left and right about 4 to 5 inches in no particular order. Now this was because of the pressure I am guessing. Now just because I was frustrated I decided to shoot some factory loads from last year. These were 160gr Accubonds (Winchester). Now these grouped at about 4 to 5 inches higher then the Hornadys but the left and right was great. Does this make any sense I would think the faster lighter bullet would hit higher? Is the pressure effecting that also? By the way I do have a synthetic stalk also. if that matters. Thank you

Once you start throwing bullets that much faster than what's prescribed by the companies that do all the research to find safe loads, all bets are off as to where it will hit and how it will perform. The max safe speed for that load is probably in the 2750-2800fps range. Hodgdon lists it at 2931 for a 150gr bullet, but those numbers are almost always optimistic speeds for the common hunting rifle, and your bullet is a little heavier.

As for what type of bullet and powder, and how heavy a bullet and how much powder you should use, your rifle will tell you, but you have to do some work with it to find out what it likes. I'd have your friend show you how to 'work up' a load...or maybe someone else that has more experience. You generally want to start at or close to the minimum powder charge (say 58gr for example) and work your way up in .5-1 grain increments (3-5 rounds for each load, from 58gr up to 60gr), shooting for groups with each load. Whichever load groups the best (say 57.5gr), load up some more in .1gr increments from 57.1-57.9gr, and shoot them the same way. Whatever .1gr load shoots the best should be your 'accuracy load'. If you're looking for top (safe) speed, you often have to sacrifice a little accuracy, but not always. If 59gr gives you acceptable 'hunting' accuracy at the distances you plan to shoot at, use it. Of course, if you're looking to find the 'perfect' load, there's a lot more work to be done. Changing primers, cartridge overall length, neck size/vs. full length size, type of powder, crimp/no crimp, and the list goes on. If you float the barrel it will change the way your barrel vibrates (harmonics), so you'll have to redevelop your load after that. Each of these variables will change how the load shoots, so every time you change one you have to do more load work. Shoot a few hundred rounds and you should be able to find the absolute best, most accurate round your gun will shoot. The hard part of reloading is figuring out how to quit You may be happy with the groups you get from your .5gr load work, and if you are you can stop there. It's all up to the shooter.

The bullet you have should be just fine, but I'd bump it up to 170-180gr bullets for elk. What you're using will work just fine on elk, but since you're still trying to develop a good elk load you may as well go up to a heavier bullet. It will give you a little more energy, but won't fly quite as flat. Like I said, either one will work, so it's just which ever you prefer.

Man what a great response. Thank you for all that info. That is why I like this site because you can talk with guys like you who will give you the "real" answer. I am going to try all of the above you just mentioned and see what we can come up with. You are correct by saying I am trying to get a good elk load. So the 154 are good but maybe I should bump it up? Now I am in a unit with alot of open country and possible longer shots. Now I do not plan on taking a unethical long shot but I thought the flatter shooting bullet would help with less adjustment at longer shots . But is the energy going to be enough at 400 yards? Now I do know all this only works IF I MAKE A GOOD SHOT, so lets say I am going to make a great shot Will the 154's be enough to accomplish distance and energy? Now that is also assuming these Hornady's stay together like advertised. Again thank you for giving me some great ideas and sharing your wisdom. Sorry for all the long questions?

Did you get my question earlier about the rules on the elk contest?

I often use Remington's ballistic charts to estimate what another load will do and how it will perform. Granted, these charts are created from lab data, not real-world field data, so I look at them as estimates of performance rather than gospel. Here's the link:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

Comparing their 150gr and 175gr PCPCL loads, the 150gr actually has more energy at the muzzle than the 175gr bullet. That's because it's travelling faster. The 175gr holds onto more energy further out though, but both bullets should perform just fine on elk within 400 yards. I'm not advocating shooting elk at that distance, but the bullet carries enough energy to do the job if you do yours too Modern gun writers have set the standards of minimum energy for centerfire rifles at 1000 ft/lbs for deer and 1500 ft/lbs for elk. If the bullet is carrying that much energy at the given distance, it is capable of cleanly killing said animal.

I haven't used the Interbonds much except for practice loads in my .270. They're cheap, very uniform considering the price, and group well for me. If you wanna check out some reviews of different bullets, try www.midwayusa.com. Look up whatever bullet you want to use and read the reviews on them. If you decide against this particular bullet, I'm heard a LOT of good things about Nosler Partitions. They're more expensive, but I consider them a good value for the performance they give. Barnes bullets perform very well on game, but I've heard they're very finicky in handloads and may require more time at the bench and a lot more $$ in practice rounds. Sierra Gameking SBTs are also very good bullets for the money - they are my go-to bullet for my .270 and one of my .30-06s.

Thank you again for your time and info. I will let you know what happens with the new loads. If they dont work then I do have a great list of Rounds to try. I am still confused on why used 69 gr of powder but now I know that I need to do it myself. Of course I need all the equiptment first. I'm guessing a Hammer,Plyers,a measuring cup and a vise wont work?

Have a great day and thanks to all who offered info

Nope If you just wanna try reloading, you can get a decent Lee Hand Press Kit from MidwayUSA - Less Hand Press Kit for about $30. Then all you need is a scale to measure powder and dies for the caliber you'll be reloading. You can get all you need (minus powder, primers and bullets) for probably under $100.

Before you try it yourself, find a copy of 'The ABC's of Reloading' and READ IT. You can get it at MidwayUSA, but your local library may also have a copy. Also, buy a reloading manual - most of them will tell you all you need to know, but if you have a preference for a specific brand of bullet buy the one they publish.

There are a lot of reasons not to use 69gr of powder in a 7 mag. The two biggest are that it is WAY over the maximum load for that caliber (based on the specs supplied by the scientists that designed the powder) and it can and eventually will damage your gun, and probably your body. The more powder you stuff in a case, the bigger the 'explosion' will be (it doesn't actually explode, it burns. In a contained environment like a cartridge it burns very fast, as if it was exploding). That means higher pressure. The brass case is weak compared to the steel chamber of your gun, but with the steel behind it the brass contains the 'explosion' and keeps all that burned powder residue contained rather than all over your gun. If the explosion is too hot it can compromise the integrity of the brass and actually blow through it. That can stretch things in your action that aren't meant to be stretched, burn out the throat of the barrel (damaging accuracy), burn your bolt face causing it to become more brittle and eventually fail, and a host of other problems.

In short, reloading can be very dangerous if you don't follow the directions EXACTLY. It's perfectly fine if you know what you're doing, but people are maimed, blinded and killed every year when their gun explodes due to careless reloading procedures. It can even happen with muzzleloaders. I still make stupid mistakes sometimes, but I've made enough of them that I've learned to catch them before stupid becomes painful

If you wanna get into reloading, read all you can first. Don't rush it - it takes time to learn. If you know someone else that reloads, watch them do it before you try it yourself. Some parts of the process and the 'whys' are difficult to understand until you see someone do it. If you have questions, ask them. I'm no expert, but I know enough to help out a brother in need most of the time, and I'm always around. You might also check out www.reloadbench.com for LOTS of great info, and a forum with some super-nice people that know all there is to know about reloading. You might even find someone in your area that would be willing to show you the ropes.

Dang it, I thought I had all the equiptment iOnce again Thank you for your words of wisdom I thought it was a little more expensive to get started I guess. That is very reasonable. I will check out those sites also.

Now I did shoot almost a box(20) of these crazy loads through my gun. Do you think that is enough to damage it? and is there a way I can check things out other then just looking at everything? I know it is hard for you to say either way I just thought maybe there are signs that something is wrong. Other then a terrible shot pattern.

Have a great day

I think that it may help keep the barrel a little cooler,but nothing you would notice.The main thing is to stop it from pushing against the stock making follow up shots be off mark.

My uncle was big time into loading back in the day,and he said sometimes they got their best performance from backing off the powder a little.I know alot of guys like to go real hot,but that just hurts your barrel,and sometimes it makes you less accurate because the bullet starts flying everywhere.

Thank Randolph,

That makes alot of sense. That is what we are going to try. Back a few down and see if we can get better groups...

Also you can get a good starting point for the bullet you choose to use by purchasing a reloading manual by the bullet manufacturer you plan to use.

I hope this little info helps you out.

Your spent brass will sometimes tell you about impending problems. If there's soot around the case neck on some loads and not others, the ones with the soot are too light for that gun. Not enough pressure to expand the neck before the soot blows back into the chamber. If the case head separates (been there, done that, and it ain't fun ), the body or neck splits or the brass 'fails' in any other way, that could mean either excessive pressure, improperly sized brass or the brass has been loaded too many times. Watch your primers, too - compare a spent primer from a factory load to each hand load you shoot. When you notice your hand-loaded primers starting to flatten out more than the factory loads, or if they back out of the primer pocket, you've hit your gun's maximum pressure and should back down just a bit.

Your gun will also tell you when it's been damaged by excessive pressure, but it usually won't say anything until it's too late. If you see any bulges in the barrel or chamber, consider yourself lucky to be alive and don't shoot it again without having a smith look it over. I've heard that muzzleloaders shot with too much powder will sometimes start showing stress cracks around the chamber, but I don't know for sure that centerfire rifles will do that. Doesn't hurt to look though. The throat will also start to wear out and you'll have to seat your bullets longer and longer to reach the lands, but it would probably take more than 20 rounds of that load before you'd see any noticible difference, and you'd have to take before and after measurements to tell anyway.

If your factory loads are still grouping well, I would say the gun is fine. If you see anything that worries you, take it to a gun shop or smith and have them give it a once-over. I figure your gun is just fine though. That metal is pretty tough and will take a lot of abuse. Yes it will fail if you get excessive with the abuse, but I don't think you shot enough of those loads to really hurt it.

Thank you for the reassurance, I will be shooting tonight with the new loads so I will let you know what happens.

Every little bit of info helps alot

Allright. I shot 4 different loads with 3 shots of each @ 100 yards.

58,60,62,64 gr of powder

the first 3 groups were all basically 2 inch groups. either a little right or left

the fourth group was all over the paper, like the 68 gr load. TOO HOT

Now the 62 group was the best but my bolt was a little sticky when I would eject the round. the 60 group was good with no sticky bolt. So we went with 61 and I shot them last night. I had 2 out of the 3 shots touching @ 2 inches high. I adjusted a half inch down and shot @ 200 yrds. Dead on with 2 shots and one bad shot by me.

What a difference in groups and accuracy. Thank you again for all the info. I truly know way more about the do's and dont's of re-loading. I have alot more to learn but I felt so much more confident with my combo lastnight. More practice to come, Thanks again

Congrats on the good shooting!

That sticky bolt usually means your loads are too hot. Backing off was the right thing to do! You may still get better accuracy with a lighter powder charge, but if you're happy with it there's no reason not to use it.

NcHawkeye was right on the money. I had some rounds loaded for my .270 a few years ago and the breech was harder to open when I fired it. It took a little bit but we finally figured it out.